Find x.
This question from a student. I tried to solve the problem.
Monday, November 5, 2012
Monday, April 30, 2012
BERSIH 3.0 不求名留青史，只求见证历史
如果有一天国阵倒台了。相信BERSIH会被写在历史里。BERSIH人民强大的力量把腐败的国阵打倒了。我会告诉儿子，〝爸爸出席了428〞。
在上一次709 BERSIH 2.0，我没出席。太太基于安全问题，我也明白她会担心什么。428 这一次她没有阻止我，她知道我很想出席。她知道将会成为孩子爸爸的我，是会勇敢得站出来的。她也明白国与家是不能分开的。这次我得到了孩子妈妈的支持。有了VISA。谢谢你，孩子的妈妈。
在Ambiga宣布428不久后，我和太太去买了一件黄绿的t-shirt，开始准备了。我决定参加STOP LYNAS，然后会合BERSIH．在反稀土课题，我身为一位化学工程师，我坦言我对稀土的生产过程一知半解，应该说不知不解，从未在大学读过稀土的生产过程。我第一次听到〝稀土〞(Rare Earth)是在2007，旧公司得到LYNAS的一小部分的工程，有一位旧同事问我什么是稀土？我在网上找到一些资料，告诉他稀土不是土，是某某金属，含辐射。不以为然。2008年我离开了这间公司，据知LYNAS的工程被搁置，不是因为它有害，是因为全球经济风暴。大概2010，它又被启动了。如今看到30年前有类似的稀土厂在红坭山，导致当地居民受辐射的影响，有些小孩天生智障。居民大力反对后，亚洲稀土厂被关闭了。现在澳洲稀土厂又来了。
STOP LYNAS , SAVE MALAYSIA. 如果你是那些智障小孩的父母。当孩子问〝爸爸，妈妈，为什么我『天生』这样的？〞，我因该怎样回答呢？阻止它(LYNAS)，不然你会后悔！！如果不阻止它，后果发生了怎么办，那时追究谁，追究到，又有用吗？孩子不能回头了，不要让它发生。
为什么会有建稀土厂？是因为我们有腐败的政府，贪钱的政府。要有干净的选举，公平的选举，才会有干净的政府。首相那吉为了选票说"we make a deal, you help me, I help you"。这一翻话像贪污的警察对犯错的驾驶人要钱一样。再看一宗又一宗贪污舞弊，养牛中心2.5亿，巴生自由贸港120亿，潜水艇5亿…至少可以列出50多宗。有人要查贸港，反而被拉下台。稽查报告指出多宗舞弊，反贪局说：〝买贵了〞，就不了了之。天啊！
立法﹑司法﹑执法，不能三权鼎立。一切源由从肮脏选举开始。一句话，选区划分是国阵的霸道！2008 年， 国阵只获得22.75%的选票，就已经拿下了51%多数议席执政。这就是选区划分不公的实例！上千位逾百岁幽灵选民事件！活人变死人！外劳变选民！选委会主席是污统党员！能中立吗？能公正吗？
再回头看428大集会，当天我和朋友跟着大队一起从KLCC步行去Dataran Merdeka。大约有3公里，一路上喊〝Bersih〞，〝Stop Lynas〞，慢慢走，拍拍照。好像去旅行，气氛很和平。伊斯兰党义工团为我们开路，维持次序，应计一功。有到场的朋友都不会反对我说的吧。当场真是人山人海，有的长者，有的携家眷，更不能少了一班年轻人，但是还是一遍和平气氛。我也看到Ambiga经过我前面。拍拍照。
直到三点钟，集会圆满结束，有些人则拿出垃圾袋来拾垃圾，个个拍照留念，大伙儿开始疏散回家了。这时候前方飘来一股刺鼻的味道。那就闻名不如见面的『催泪弹』！吸了一些烟，呼吸不爽，眼下刺痛。为什么射催泪弹？当中发生的事，你可从报章，电视，网上统统看到，是真是假你自己想。放心，最后我安全回到家。我没有后悔，我用眼睛来看，用耳朵来听，用鼻子来闻。亲身体验，我见证了这一天428！
Instruction of Teargas: "DON'T FIRE DIRECTLY AT PERSONS"
************************* Video sharing *************************
Global Bersih 3.0 (from around the world), source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXC7oljT3_8
Bersih 3.0 Same Day Edit, source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMywPmqdi5M
You Need Bersih 3.0 and Here's Why, source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0uSAqHuYSg
净选盟，一路走过的日子, source: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3703878245390
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3688207213624
************************* Video sharing *************************
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3688207213624
Saturday, April 21, 2012
Rare Earth - Lynas Advanced Materials Plant (Part 5)
Just to share MV producer, resident who concern the radioactive, health, and safety issue.
STOP LYNAS SAVE MALAYSIA ( 國際版 International Version )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTjAZDansbI&feature=relmfu
安心回家 Stop LYNAS Save Malaysia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1UvjqFaEAo&feature=related
STOP LYNAS SAVE MALAYSIA _ HOME（家）(press cc to choose Chinese/English subtitiles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ4LaoI5Y8U
Stop Lynas.Save Malaysia万人MV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aln-RsWRDn8&feature=related
我的家叫马来西亚 [ Stop Lynas, Save Malaysia ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T-T1pfhCAs&feature=fvwrel
STOP LYNAS SAVE MALAYSIA ( 國際版 International Version )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTjAZDansbI&feature=relmfu
安心回家 Stop LYNAS Save Malaysia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1UvjqFaEAo&feature=related
STOP LYNAS SAVE MALAYSIA _ HOME（家）(press cc to choose Chinese/English subtitiles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ4LaoI5Y8U
Stop Lynas.Save Malaysia万人MV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aln-RsWRDn8&feature=related
我的家叫马来西亚 [ Stop Lynas, Save Malaysia ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T-T1pfhCAs&feature=fvwrel
Sunday, April 15, 2012
Rare Earth - Lynas Advanced Materials Plant (Part 4)
Where is Lynas Advanced Material Plant location?
Gebeng, Kuantan, Malaysia (4.002,103.375)
Where is Lynas Rare Earth Mine location?
You can find it by this coordinate (-28.863,122.546) in maps.yahoo.com
The rare earth re-concentrated ore will send to Kuantan, Malaysia to processing. The path is more than 4000 km.
You can zoom out and scroll to left. Then look at the lake water color. Why the color in brown?? by pollution?
Based on K Howell feedback, the brown color is caused by salt and iron, not by pollution.
Here are some others rare earth plant in Australia
Gebeng, Kuantan, Malaysia (4.002,103.375)
Where is Lynas Rare Earth Mine location?
You can find it by this coordinate (-28.863,122.546) in maps.yahoo.com
The rare earth re-concentrated ore will send to Kuantan, Malaysia to processing. The path is more than 4000 km.
You can zoom out and scroll to left. Then look at the lake water color. Why the color in brown?? by pollution?
Based on K Howell feedback, the brown color is caused by salt and iron, not by pollution.
Here are some others rare earth plant in Australia
1. at Muchea, Australia (-31.531,115.964)
2. at Broken Hill, Australia (-31.99,141.408)
3. at Eneabba, Australia (-29.811,115.294)
4. at Hamilton, Australia (-37.781,141.977)
5. at Bunbury, Australia (-33.351,115.698)
6. at Bunbury, Australia (-33.32,115.653)
7. at Kwinana,Australia (-32.229,115.773)
8. at Geraldton, Australia (-28.817,114.679)
9. at Geraldton, Australia (-28.777,114.594)
10. at Rockingham, Australia (-32.263,115.761)
11. at Capel, Australia (-33.545,115.571)
*******************************************************************************************************************
The World biggest Rare Earth Producer, at Bayan Obo, China (41.791,109.973)
This plant is highly polluted to nearby environment due to poor management.
Molycorp Mountain Pass Rare Earth refinery, USA (35.476,-115.531)
Mt Pass plant was closed in 2002 due to environmental impact by spill radioactive waste water to around. Molycorp plant to re-open the mine.
Mt Pass plant was closed in 2002 due to environmental impact by spill radioactive waste water to around. Molycorp plant to re-open the mine.
Indian Rare Earth Limited, India (19.308,84.958)
Friday, March 30, 2012
Rare Earth - Lynas Advanced Materials Plant (Part 3)
--- continue from part 2
Boonlee Ooi: I have few questions, hope you dont mind to explain.
1) Since you are rare earth expert and work with many companies around the world. Can you share how many rare earth plants in the world which is operating now. Or where can I find the source?
Nick Tsurikov: I think I did put a small note on currently operating and (closed by now) plants. There are some in China (obvioulsy), in India, and Central Asia. At least three that I know of are in an 'advanced state of development', in South Africa, USA and Australia and I am also aware of about a dozen of projects that are in the stage of "resource definition drilling". That's more or less answers no.1.
Boonlee Ooi: Thanks for information. If there is some source which shows list of rare earth plant around the world will be better.
----
Boonlee Ooi: 2) I heard that rare earth plant was built away from population. Is there any rare earth plant build at high population town? Where is it?
Kiyo Howell:
2) China's Baotou Rare Earth refineries are in close proximity to over 2million residents.
considering at the moment China accounts for more than 95% of world production, I find it hard to believe any plants would be significantly remote.
(Kiyo Howell, his expertise is "dangerous goods" transportation. Dangerous Goods include ratioactive goods - usually consigments of radiation therapy material, and spent X-ray tubes. He often handle soil and water samples classified as radioactive)
Nick Tsurikov: With No.2 - as I am yet to update my 'radiation monitor' photo with the pic I took at Mount Weld (my apologies, just too many things to do...), I'll do some 'wandering around' the google earth and image editing as well. In the evening, have work to do...
I have seen somewhere (don't remember, honestly, where) some google earth thingy with an arrow between the LAMP site and Kuantan showing 20 kms or so... There are plenty of plants in Australia where one of the rare earth minerals is mined and processed, together with others (the stuff called monazite that was apparenty processed at Bukit Merah). I'll make up some maps with the locations of the plants and nearest population indications as well. My guess that this would be a fair comparison - as (a) one of the materials is, actually, rare earth mineral, (b) the overall 'radioactivity concentration' of minerals processed varies (similar to amang) from about 1-2 to about 90 Bq/g - about 15 times more than Lynas concentrate or residue, and (c) there are several places in Australia and you will clearly see how far and/or how close these plants are to the people.
Boonlee Ooi: 2) Kiyo Howell has given example China's Baotou rare earth plant which built in high population area. This is not a good example plant. It is many issues of radioactive from Baotou rare earth plant. Actually, I would like to know any “healthy” example plant which operates safely and it is located in high population area?
Nick Tsurikov: I think I've answered (1) and (2) as best as I could.
----
Boonlee Ooi: 3) Do you think our country suitable to build the plant? Here is high rain country. Kuantan is one of often get flood area. You can google “Kuantan flood”, it will shows you many incidents. Lynas is claimed here has good facilities, like power supply, water supply and near to port. Cant whole Australia find a location with these facilities? We don’t have a good draining system. Plus heavy rain frequently and monsoon area, Kuantan was get flood many times. Then do you think a rare earth plant suit to build at a place easy to get flood?
Nick Tsurikov: With No.3, there is no point in going into 'Australia or Malaysia discussion', this has nothing to do with me and I would not know for sure anyway. However, to answer the question - yes, there should not be big deal of a problem in tropical climate. If you'll look at uranium mining sites - all the serious mistakes that may have been made were fixed by the end of 1970's - mid 1980's. And uranium mines/plants - where the tailings dams are tens of times larger than anything can ever be at Lynas, and where the radionuclides is tailings may be quite soluble (=environmentally mobile), and where there is a 'radon issue' that will be absent at Kuantan... They do operate (and dipose the waste) quite successfully in both tropical climate, temperate climate or in places where it can be minus 50 in winter. I did 'look into' all varieties - and the only possibly serious issue is where those tailings dams are in the mountains in the 'sesmically active' areas. No problem of dealing with much more radioactive and much more mobile uranium tailings in tropical climates, with about 3 meters of rain per year - so there should not be any issue in Kuantan. Plus, I, honestly, don't know why people keep bringing this up - didn't Lynas say that there will be no waste permanently disposed at or near Kuantan...? Or am I missing something...?
Boonlee Ooi: 3. I have to split this question into two parts:
a) Regarding the flood, may be LAMP has designed for 100 year rain (quote from Kiyo Howell’s). but the outside of LYNAS plant, the public draining system, our govt is not design it properly, so that Kuantan will easily flooded. Many cases of flood are happened in kuantan. Other places may be they can handle the rain properly and they are not flooded, but not in Kuantan. I would like to know, what if flood happen, what are the procedures LYNAS will take? Just worst case.
---
b) Lynas always told people reason of selected in Kuantan because water supply, power supply, skilled worker, and near to port. I just want to know can’t Australia find a place equipped with these facilities, Yes or No?
Nick Tsurikov:
In regards to (a) - I haven't got a slightest clue "what procedures will Lynas take" in case of the flood. I could possibly speculate on what procedures I would take - but this most likely be stupid as I have only a vague information of the 'set-up' of the land, river flows and potential flooding... You do need to ask them...
---
In regards to (b) - well...
Issue 1 - skilled workers.
OK... say we can (a) find any - there is a huge labour shortage in mining and mineral processing and then (b) relocate the skilled workers to any place, no matter where - which will be very expensive. But, say, we did that and build a whole new town with cinemas, airport etc... stupid, but OK, let's assume we are silly enough to do this...
Issue 2 - chemicals
Obviously will be much more expensive than in Malaysia, mostly due to the transport costs, but say we have huge amounts of money and will do this too..
Then we get to issue 3 - port.
Needs to be not too far in Western Australia (it would be quite stupid to track the material all across the whole country - might as well send it to Malaysia). We have Perth, Geradton and Esperance, fine... But only Perth can handle containers...
No.4 - power...
Well, how often do you sit without power in KL or Kuantan per year? Our place in Perth on average has 10-12 days per year when we sit around the fire or burn candles. The image of 'Australia has lots of everything' is not exactly true - sure there are some places where the power is almost always on, but on hot days the TV and radio keep reminding us to save energy and not to switch air-conditioning on, unless absolutely necessary. Price of electricity has also doubled here in the last couple of years...
Now we get to No.5 - water...
I think I wrote somewhere here that we already have a desalination plant in Perth and the second one is nearly built. I can only water my garden for several hours a couple of days per week - so had to get rid of some 'water-demanding' plants, as they simply die without daily watering. We do not have enough fresh water in Western Australia, the price of it this year is about 160% of the price the year before and about 250% of the 2009 price - so you can well imagine what would happen if a company like Lynas comes in and says - we're going to take about 10% of Perth water supply to run the plant.
I guess this explains everything, more or less.
Sure, Australia is huge - but it is the 'driest continent'. Place where I live (Eneabba on the google earth map above) has only about 250 mm of rain per year, Laverton near which Lynas mine site is barely gets 200 mm per year...
---
So, effectively:
1. Skilled workers could be found at great expense and relocated to the area at even greater expense;
2. Chemicals can be brought in, at a great expense as well;
3. Not too many ports, and in fact only one (Perth-Fremantle) would handle containers;
4. Obtaining electricity supply and maintaining it would be extremely hard and, probably, the only way will be to construct a specifically designated medium size power plant (most likely coal-fired, and there isn't much enthusiasm for more coal burning... diesel-powered one will be so expensive to run that it's not funny);
5. Lastly, the required water supply will be impossible to obtain, in my personal opinion...
<<<
Not talking about Malaysia - you will know much better than me, but I reckon that in general terms all five factors above are much more 'favourable' in Malaysia in comparison with Australia.
Boonlee Ooi: I asked my few friends live in Parth for more than 4 years. They did not have experience power blackout 10-12 days a year.
------------>To be continue
Boonlee Ooi: I have few questions, hope you dont mind to explain.
1) Since you are rare earth expert and work with many companies around the world. Can you share how many rare earth plants in the world which is operating now. Or where can I find the source?
Nick Tsurikov: I think I did put a small note on currently operating and (closed by now) plants. There are some in China (obvioulsy), in India, and Central Asia. At least three that I know of are in an 'advanced state of development', in South Africa, USA and Australia and I am also aware of about a dozen of projects that are in the stage of "resource definition drilling". That's more or less answers no.1.
Boonlee Ooi: Thanks for information. If there is some source which shows list of rare earth plant around the world will be better.
----
Boonlee Ooi: 2) I heard that rare earth plant was built away from population. Is there any rare earth plant build at high population town? Where is it?
Kiyo Howell:
2) China's Baotou Rare Earth refineries are in close proximity to over 2million residents.
considering at the moment China accounts for more than 95% of world production, I find it hard to believe any plants would be significantly remote.
(Kiyo Howell, his expertise is "dangerous goods" transportation. Dangerous Goods include ratioactive goods - usually consigments of radiation therapy material, and spent X-ray tubes. He often handle soil and water samples classified as radioactive)
Nick Tsurikov: With No.2 - as I am yet to update my 'radiation monitor' photo with the pic I took at Mount Weld (my apologies, just too many things to do...), I'll do some 'wandering around' the google earth and image editing as well. In the evening, have work to do...
I have seen somewhere (don't remember, honestly, where) some google earth thingy with an arrow between the LAMP site and Kuantan showing 20 kms or so... There are plenty of plants in Australia where one of the rare earth minerals is mined and processed, together with others (the stuff called monazite that was apparenty processed at Bukit Merah). I'll make up some maps with the locations of the plants and nearest population indications as well. My guess that this would be a fair comparison - as (a) one of the materials is, actually, rare earth mineral, (b) the overall 'radioactivity concentration' of minerals processed varies (similar to amang) from about 1-2 to about 90 Bq/g - about 15 times more than Lynas concentrate or residue, and (c) there are several places in Australia and you will clearly see how far and/or how close these plants are to the people.
Boonlee Ooi: 2) Kiyo Howell has given example China's Baotou rare earth plant which built in high population area. This is not a good example plant. It is many issues of radioactive from Baotou rare earth plant. Actually, I would like to know any “healthy” example plant which operates safely and it is located in high population area?
Nick Tsurikov: I think I've answered (1) and (2) as best as I could.
----
Boonlee Ooi: 3) Do you think our country suitable to build the plant? Here is high rain country. Kuantan is one of often get flood area. You can google “Kuantan flood”, it will shows you many incidents. Lynas is claimed here has good facilities, like power supply, water supply and near to port. Cant whole Australia find a location with these facilities? We don’t have a good draining system. Plus heavy rain frequently and monsoon area, Kuantan was get flood many times. Then do you think a rare earth plant suit to build at a place easy to get flood?
Nick Tsurikov: With No.3, there is no point in going into 'Australia or Malaysia discussion', this has nothing to do with me and I would not know for sure anyway. However, to answer the question - yes, there should not be big deal of a problem in tropical climate. If you'll look at uranium mining sites - all the serious mistakes that may have been made were fixed by the end of 1970's - mid 1980's. And uranium mines/plants - where the tailings dams are tens of times larger than anything can ever be at Lynas, and where the radionuclides is tailings may be quite soluble (=environmentally mobile), and where there is a 'radon issue' that will be absent at Kuantan... They do operate (and dipose the waste) quite successfully in both tropical climate, temperate climate or in places where it can be minus 50 in winter. I did 'look into' all varieties - and the only possibly serious issue is where those tailings dams are in the mountains in the 'sesmically active' areas. No problem of dealing with much more radioactive and much more mobile uranium tailings in tropical climates, with about 3 meters of rain per year - so there should not be any issue in Kuantan. Plus, I, honestly, don't know why people keep bringing this up - didn't Lynas say that there will be no waste permanently disposed at or near Kuantan...? Or am I missing something...?
Boonlee Ooi: 3. I have to split this question into two parts:
a) Regarding the flood, may be LAMP has designed for 100 year rain (quote from Kiyo Howell’s). but the outside of LYNAS plant, the public draining system, our govt is not design it properly, so that Kuantan will easily flooded. Many cases of flood are happened in kuantan. Other places may be they can handle the rain properly and they are not flooded, but not in Kuantan. I would like to know, what if flood happen, what are the procedures LYNAS will take? Just worst case.
---
b) Lynas always told people reason of selected in Kuantan because water supply, power supply, skilled worker, and near to port. I just want to know can’t Australia find a place equipped with these facilities, Yes or No?
Nick Tsurikov:
In regards to (a) - I haven't got a slightest clue "what procedures will Lynas take" in case of the flood. I could possibly speculate on what procedures I would take - but this most likely be stupid as I have only a vague information of the 'set-up' of the land, river flows and potential flooding... You do need to ask them...
---
In regards to (b) - well...
Issue 1 - skilled workers.
OK... say we can (a) find any - there is a huge labour shortage in mining and mineral processing and then (b) relocate the skilled workers to any place, no matter where - which will be very expensive. But, say, we did that and build a whole new town with cinemas, airport etc... stupid, but OK, let's assume we are silly enough to do this...
Issue 2 - chemicals
Obviously will be much more expensive than in Malaysia, mostly due to the transport costs, but say we have huge amounts of money and will do this too..
Then we get to issue 3 - port.
Needs to be not too far in Western Australia (it would be quite stupid to track the material all across the whole country - might as well send it to Malaysia). We have Perth, Geradton and Esperance, fine... But only Perth can handle containers...
No.4 - power...
Well, how often do you sit without power in KL or Kuantan per year? Our place in Perth on average has 10-12 days per year when we sit around the fire or burn candles. The image of 'Australia has lots of everything' is not exactly true - sure there are some places where the power is almost always on, but on hot days the TV and radio keep reminding us to save energy and not to switch air-conditioning on, unless absolutely necessary. Price of electricity has also doubled here in the last couple of years...
Now we get to No.5 - water...
I think I wrote somewhere here that we already have a desalination plant in Perth and the second one is nearly built. I can only water my garden for several hours a couple of days per week - so had to get rid of some 'water-demanding' plants, as they simply die without daily watering. We do not have enough fresh water in Western Australia, the price of it this year is about 160% of the price the year before and about 250% of the 2009 price - so you can well imagine what would happen if a company like Lynas comes in and says - we're going to take about 10% of Perth water supply to run the plant.
I guess this explains everything, more or less.
Sure, Australia is huge - but it is the 'driest continent'. Place where I live (Eneabba on the google earth map above) has only about 250 mm of rain per year, Laverton near which Lynas mine site is barely gets 200 mm per year...
---
So, effectively:
1. Skilled workers could be found at great expense and relocated to the area at even greater expense;
2. Chemicals can be brought in, at a great expense as well;
3. Not too many ports, and in fact only one (Perth-Fremantle) would handle containers;
4. Obtaining electricity supply and maintaining it would be extremely hard and, probably, the only way will be to construct a specifically designated medium size power plant (most likely coal-fired, and there isn't much enthusiasm for more coal burning... diesel-powered one will be so expensive to run that it's not funny);
5. Lastly, the required water supply will be impossible to obtain, in my personal opinion...
<<<
Not talking about Malaysia - you will know much better than me, but I reckon that in general terms all five factors above are much more 'favourable' in Malaysia in comparison with Australia.
Boonlee Ooi: I asked my few friends live in Parth for more than 4 years. They did not have experience power blackout 10-12 days a year.
------------>To be continue
Sunday, March 25, 2012
Rare Earth - Lynas Advanced Materials Plant (Part 2)
--- continue from part 1
Boonlee Ooi: Dear Nick Tsurikov, i believe you on the way to re-measure the lynas rare earth radiation. hope you on the safe way.
1) your photos are show comparison radiation measure in gamma. I guess the rare earth will release alpha, beta radiation as well. Can it be measured?
Nick Tsurikov :
1. Alpha-beta-gamma thing?
Alpha and beta cannot be measured “directly”. The only way is to measure what is in the air and water (in Becquerels per cubic meter of litre), then estimate how much air person breathes per year and how much water person drinks per year. Then there are internationally-accepted coefficients on how to convert “radiation intake” in Becquerels to the actual radiation dose in milliSieverts.
-----
2) Does alpha, beta radiation harmful to health? alpha, beta, gamma; which is more dangerous to health?
3) There is external and internal human body exposures of radiation from decay activity. I guess internal exposure is more dangerous. am I right?
2 & 3. How harmful all these are?
Effectively, there are different ways how different types of radiation can affect your body; gamma is just a wave, beta is a free electron and alpha – is a particle consisting of two protons and two neutrons that is about 50,000 times heavier than the beta one. Naturally, and quite obviously – a small rock weighting 1 gram will hitting you will have a different effect if this rock weights 50 kilograms…
There are internationally-accepted “radiation weighting factors” and whilst for gamma and beta these are “1”, for alpha it is “20”. So, of course, it is more dangerous, twenty times more dangerous.
The issue, however, is how one gets an “alpha exposure”. The alpha particles are relatively huge and cannot possibly penetrate even a piece of paper or human skin – so the only possible exposure is if one breathes it “in” or drinks it. I did illustrate in my assessment of LAMP, with the help of the main author of the report by the European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR - Dr Busby) that the only really dangerous dust particles that can actually go “all the way into the lungs” are less than 1 micrometer in size. The dust of this type is never present in mining and mineral processing, the lowest would be about 5 micrometers, which means that even if there is any dust around – it cannot get into the lungs much. Just ask any occupational hygienist or a doctor. I am not sure, but I would be surprised if some ‘dust particle size characterisation’ measurements will not be undertaken at LAMP, I think they would be…
Water is a different story of course, but if even some stuff will get into solution – no one is going to drink water from some processing pipe inside the plant and, in my recollection, the limits that are put on the discharge water are about the same as the limits recommended by the World Health Organisation for the drinking(!) water.
So – whilst of course monitoring needs to be done and theoretical assumptions need to be confirmed – I do not see any problem with “internal exposures” associated with LAMP…
Boonlee Ooi 1,2,3) Thanks for giving explantion of dangerous level of alpha, beta and gamma. All three radiation are harm to health. alpha will 20 times more dangerous than beta and gamma, but it only travel short distance.
------
4) The Thorium is not only radioactive decay, it will decay into Pb, Lead, heavy metal which is proven harm to human brain system. It is also bio-accumulate. May I know does lynas rare earth contents Pb? what is Pb concentration?
Nick Tsurikov :
4. You are absolutely correct – the ‘end product’ of all decays (both thorium and uranium) is lead. And, in my personal opinion, that what may have caused elevated levels of this stuff in blood of children as measured by Dr Jayabalan at Bukit Merah. Please keep in mind though that there the initial concentrations of thorium/uranium/radium (that all decay into lead) were over a hundred times more than they could possibly be at Lynas. Like… For example, some ceramic tiles – which are in many homes and kitchens – may contain (in the glaze) as much thorium as Lynas concentrate and much more uranium, we do not worry much about getting lead from there, are we…?
In addition we do know that thorium decays very slowly – therefore, the “rate of lead generation” will be as slow as the rate of thorium decay; basically something that you need several life-spans just to do a first approximation by measuring anything…
As to what actually is in the Lynas concentrate – I am not sure but I think the ‘Material Safety Data Sheet’ (MSDS) for it should be somewhere in the “public domain”. I think I’ve got it somewhere here, but honestly, do not have the time to look for it in my archives. What I remember is that the ‘heavy metals’ as a group (lead, mercury, cadmium, whatever…) either were measured to be “below detection limits” or somewhere around some tens of ‘parts per million’. You would have to either trawl through Lynas docs or ask them for it – I am not a specialist in lead, its toxicity etc; all I can do is to roughly stimate the rate of its generation…
Boonlee Ooi 4) You also think that lead level in chidren blood was caused from thorium decay.
-----
5) the media said smoke a pack of cigarette (but it did not said number of stick), cause radiation of 150 milliSv/year. It is CONFUSING to public people. I guess cigarette is thermal radiation, rare earth is alpha, beta, gamma radiation, I dont think cigarette will release gamma, both radiation should be different. can you clarify?
Nick Tsurikov :
5. Radiation and smoking
I did write it somewhere, but cannot find it now…
Basically, what happens:
Tobacco plants (and leaves in particular) have “natural affinity” to polonium that exists naturally, who knows why. This comes from natural radon – like, it is known that in Malaysia on average natural radon concentration is 14 Bq/m3, meaning that 14 atoms of polonium-218 are generated in every cubic meter or air around you every second. Plus, there are two more poloniums in the decay chain of uranium – Po-214 and Po-210.
Naturally, the more of radon is around – the more of it will be absorbed by the leaves. And if a farmer decides to use some phosphate fertiliser to improve productivity – it may be naturally about 2 Bq/g (2000 Bq/kg) of uranium, that will eventually result in 2000 atoms of each (!) of three poloniums to be generated every second and be available for the plant to “uptake”.
Then what happens – we dry the leaves up, chop them and put them into cigarettes. So, when one smokes, polonium is just one of those 40-50 ‘toxic’ ingredients of the smoke.
Now – where it becomes dangerous and important is when we will ‘look into’ the particle size (as I’ve mentioned above). Of course, the particles of tobacco smoke are “sub-micron” in size and can get anywhere inside the lungs – thus if someone smokes: the more he/she smokes – the more he/she has radioactive polonium atoms irradiating the lungs from the inside. [Please do tell this to everyone who snokes - they may change their mind or least will start thinking of quitting...]
As in regards to the number: I, honestly, do not think that 150 mSv/year is entirely correct – I have seen the numbers from 10 mSv/year to 30 mSv/year (using different assumptions and different kinds of tobacco), so 150 looks to me a bit too high…
But I do know why the quoted number is so high - because it is said that this is the "dose to the lung"... Which, in all honestly, should not be compared with the 'overall bosy dose'...
Apologies for maybe getting too technical, but I hope that you and most people will get it…
You see, we are all exposed to three different types of radiation (alpha, beta and gamma). And, of course, different types of radiation affect different parts of the body differently.
Let’s see… For example, I walk on some radioactive material that emits mostly alpha radiation, has fallen over and have it now (a) between my shoelaces and inside the shoes, (b) inside shirt pockets and (c) on my hands. I would not even bother about the stuff inside the shoes (unless they became uncomfortable), in the shirt pockets – the same thing, who cares – it will not go through the shirt or my skin. I will, however, wash my hands thoroughly before eating or drinking – so I will not “ingest” anything.
Now let’s assume that the stuff emits mostly gamma – the situation would be a bit reversed, I will still not care much about the shoes (though will clean them before leaving the area), then I will firstly empty the pockets of the shirt, and only then will wash my hands – as my heart and lungs are, of course, more ‘sensitive’ to radiation than my hands…
I did mention the ‘radiation weighting factors’ above – for different types of radiation. But then there are also ‘tissue weighting factors’ – which are all a faction of “1” and can be from 0.01 for the skin to 0.20 for ‘gonads’.
Effectively what the 'dose in milliSeieverts' is - is a combination of different types of radiation affecting different body parts to a different degree; I would call it a "common denominator" or something... Basically, so we can sompare the dose of nuclear medicine physician (X-rays) to a dose of oil and gas worker doing borehole logging (beryllium/americium - to see what's under the ground), or a worker in mining and mineral processing (all the 'natural' sources of radiation). All measured in milliSieverts per year.
What I am trying to say – and why I wrote the explanation above – is that the quoted 150 mSv per year is the dose “to the lung”, not to the whole body. To get the actual ‘body dose’ (meaning that we can compare the value with the background, possible doses at Lynas or in any other place) one has to multiply the ‘dose to the lungs’ by the ‘tissue weighting factor for lungs’, which, if I remember it right, is 0.12. Therefore, the dose to a person (not lungs) is actually 18 mSv/year – this value actually makes more sense to me and it is within the range of values I've seen before...
Boonlee Ooi @Nick Tsurikov
5) You also agreed the smoke will not give too high value of radiation. Our Govt without study then publish some wrong information to misleading public .
Boonlee Ooi: Dear Nick Tsurikov, i believe you on the way to re-measure the lynas rare earth radiation. hope you on the safe way.
1) your photos are show comparison radiation measure in gamma. I guess the rare earth will release alpha, beta radiation as well. Can it be measured?
Nick Tsurikov :
1. Alpha-beta-gamma thing?
Alpha and beta cannot be measured “directly”. The only way is to measure what is in the air and water (in Becquerels per cubic meter of litre), then estimate how much air person breathes per year and how much water person drinks per year. Then there are internationally-accepted coefficients on how to convert “radiation intake” in Becquerels to the actual radiation dose in milliSieverts.
-----
2) Does alpha, beta radiation harmful to health? alpha, beta, gamma; which is more dangerous to health?
3) There is external and internal human body exposures of radiation from decay activity. I guess internal exposure is more dangerous. am I right?
2 & 3. How harmful all these are?
Effectively, there are different ways how different types of radiation can affect your body; gamma is just a wave, beta is a free electron and alpha – is a particle consisting of two protons and two neutrons that is about 50,000 times heavier than the beta one. Naturally, and quite obviously – a small rock weighting 1 gram will hitting you will have a different effect if this rock weights 50 kilograms…
There are internationally-accepted “radiation weighting factors” and whilst for gamma and beta these are “1”, for alpha it is “20”. So, of course, it is more dangerous, twenty times more dangerous.
The issue, however, is how one gets an “alpha exposure”. The alpha particles are relatively huge and cannot possibly penetrate even a piece of paper or human skin – so the only possible exposure is if one breathes it “in” or drinks it. I did illustrate in my assessment of LAMP, with the help of the main author of the report by the European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR - Dr Busby) that the only really dangerous dust particles that can actually go “all the way into the lungs” are less than 1 micrometer in size. The dust of this type is never present in mining and mineral processing, the lowest would be about 5 micrometers, which means that even if there is any dust around – it cannot get into the lungs much. Just ask any occupational hygienist or a doctor. I am not sure, but I would be surprised if some ‘dust particle size characterisation’ measurements will not be undertaken at LAMP, I think they would be…
Water is a different story of course, but if even some stuff will get into solution – no one is going to drink water from some processing pipe inside the plant and, in my recollection, the limits that are put on the discharge water are about the same as the limits recommended by the World Health Organisation for the drinking(!) water.
So – whilst of course monitoring needs to be done and theoretical assumptions need to be confirmed – I do not see any problem with “internal exposures” associated with LAMP…
Boonlee Ooi 1,2,3) Thanks for giving explantion of dangerous level of alpha, beta and gamma. All three radiation are harm to health. alpha will 20 times more dangerous than beta and gamma, but it only travel short distance.
------
4) The Thorium is not only radioactive decay, it will decay into Pb, Lead, heavy metal which is proven harm to human brain system. It is also bio-accumulate. May I know does lynas rare earth contents Pb? what is Pb concentration?
Nick Tsurikov :
4. You are absolutely correct – the ‘end product’ of all decays (both thorium and uranium) is lead. And, in my personal opinion, that what may have caused elevated levels of this stuff in blood of children as measured by Dr Jayabalan at Bukit Merah. Please keep in mind though that there the initial concentrations of thorium/uranium/radium (that all decay into lead) were over a hundred times more than they could possibly be at Lynas. Like… For example, some ceramic tiles – which are in many homes and kitchens – may contain (in the glaze) as much thorium as Lynas concentrate and much more uranium, we do not worry much about getting lead from there, are we…?
In addition we do know that thorium decays very slowly – therefore, the “rate of lead generation” will be as slow as the rate of thorium decay; basically something that you need several life-spans just to do a first approximation by measuring anything…
As to what actually is in the Lynas concentrate – I am not sure but I think the ‘Material Safety Data Sheet’ (MSDS) for it should be somewhere in the “public domain”. I think I’ve got it somewhere here, but honestly, do not have the time to look for it in my archives. What I remember is that the ‘heavy metals’ as a group (lead, mercury, cadmium, whatever…) either were measured to be “below detection limits” or somewhere around some tens of ‘parts per million’. You would have to either trawl through Lynas docs or ask them for it – I am not a specialist in lead, its toxicity etc; all I can do is to roughly stimate the rate of its generation…
Boonlee Ooi 4) You also think that lead level in chidren blood was caused from thorium decay.
-----
5) the media said smoke a pack of cigarette (but it did not said number of stick), cause radiation of 150 milliSv/year. It is CONFUSING to public people. I guess cigarette is thermal radiation, rare earth is alpha, beta, gamma radiation, I dont think cigarette will release gamma, both radiation should be different. can you clarify?
Nick Tsurikov :
5. Radiation and smoking
I did write it somewhere, but cannot find it now…
Basically, what happens:
Tobacco plants (and leaves in particular) have “natural affinity” to polonium that exists naturally, who knows why. This comes from natural radon – like, it is known that in Malaysia on average natural radon concentration is 14 Bq/m3, meaning that 14 atoms of polonium-218 are generated in every cubic meter or air around you every second. Plus, there are two more poloniums in the decay chain of uranium – Po-214 and Po-210.
Naturally, the more of radon is around – the more of it will be absorbed by the leaves. And if a farmer decides to use some phosphate fertiliser to improve productivity – it may be naturally about 2 Bq/g (2000 Bq/kg) of uranium, that will eventually result in 2000 atoms of each (!) of three poloniums to be generated every second and be available for the plant to “uptake”.
Then what happens – we dry the leaves up, chop them and put them into cigarettes. So, when one smokes, polonium is just one of those 40-50 ‘toxic’ ingredients of the smoke.
Now – where it becomes dangerous and important is when we will ‘look into’ the particle size (as I’ve mentioned above). Of course, the particles of tobacco smoke are “sub-micron” in size and can get anywhere inside the lungs – thus if someone smokes: the more he/she smokes – the more he/she has radioactive polonium atoms irradiating the lungs from the inside. [Please do tell this to everyone who snokes - they may change their mind or least will start thinking of quitting...]
As in regards to the number: I, honestly, do not think that 150 mSv/year is entirely correct – I have seen the numbers from 10 mSv/year to 30 mSv/year (using different assumptions and different kinds of tobacco), so 150 looks to me a bit too high…
But I do know why the quoted number is so high - because it is said that this is the "dose to the lung"... Which, in all honestly, should not be compared with the 'overall bosy dose'...
Apologies for maybe getting too technical, but I hope that you and most people will get it…
You see, we are all exposed to three different types of radiation (alpha, beta and gamma). And, of course, different types of radiation affect different parts of the body differently.
Let’s see… For example, I walk on some radioactive material that emits mostly alpha radiation, has fallen over and have it now (a) between my shoelaces and inside the shoes, (b) inside shirt pockets and (c) on my hands. I would not even bother about the stuff inside the shoes (unless they became uncomfortable), in the shirt pockets – the same thing, who cares – it will not go through the shirt or my skin. I will, however, wash my hands thoroughly before eating or drinking – so I will not “ingest” anything.
Now let’s assume that the stuff emits mostly gamma – the situation would be a bit reversed, I will still not care much about the shoes (though will clean them before leaving the area), then I will firstly empty the pockets of the shirt, and only then will wash my hands – as my heart and lungs are, of course, more ‘sensitive’ to radiation than my hands…
I did mention the ‘radiation weighting factors’ above – for different types of radiation. But then there are also ‘tissue weighting factors’ – which are all a faction of “1” and can be from 0.01 for the skin to 0.20 for ‘gonads’.
Effectively what the 'dose in milliSeieverts' is - is a combination of different types of radiation affecting different body parts to a different degree; I would call it a "common denominator" or something... Basically, so we can sompare the dose of nuclear medicine physician (X-rays) to a dose of oil and gas worker doing borehole logging (beryllium/americium - to see what's under the ground), or a worker in mining and mineral processing (all the 'natural' sources of radiation). All measured in milliSieverts per year.
What I am trying to say – and why I wrote the explanation above – is that the quoted 150 mSv per year is the dose “to the lung”, not to the whole body. To get the actual ‘body dose’ (meaning that we can compare the value with the background, possible doses at Lynas or in any other place) one has to multiply the ‘dose to the lungs’ by the ‘tissue weighting factor for lungs’, which, if I remember it right, is 0.12. Therefore, the dose to a person (not lungs) is actually 18 mSv/year – this value actually makes more sense to me and it is within the range of values I've seen before...
Boonlee Ooi @Nick Tsurikov
5) You also agreed the smoke will not give too high value of radiation. Our Govt without study then publish some wrong information to misleading public .
------------>To be continue
Rare Earth - Lynas Advanced Materials Plant (Part 1)
Recently, rare earth is hot topic in my country Malaysia. We are not concern about the technology application, or rare earth monopoly, or material price. What we concern is the harmful radiation from rare earth waste which dispose after extraction. In 2010, Australia base company, Lynas is building Lynas Advanced Materials Plant (LAMP) in Gebeng, Malaysia. Now 95% completed.
Many questions from Malaysian citizen were post in LAMP facebook, they are not answer any. But some guy are helping Lynas to response the public question. Below is quoted from original fb's post (http://www.facebook.com/lynasmalaysia):
<<========>>
Boonlee Ooi: @Nick Tsurikov, are you employed by Lynas? I guess you are Lynas' officer. Are you representing Lynas to answer the questions
Nick Tsurikov Dear Boonlee Ooi,
I am not employed by Lynas - I was their 'contract radiation safety officer' until about last October, but only for the Mount Weld site. Lynas is just one of about 20-25 different companies, governments, community organisations, etc I do 'consulting work' for - once in a while.
What I normally do is what IAEA team has done in Malaysia: come in, look at everything, take the documents home, analyse them and then produce the report - detailing what is good, what is not. This kind of thing... Doing quite a lot of this for the IAEA lately as well...
So, I most definitely do not represent Lynas in any way whatsoever - whatever I write is my personal opinions.
cheers, nick
--------
(source: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3389865183566&set=a.1151959317318.2023330.1177707225&type=3&theater)
Boonlee Ooi: @Nick, the photo in ur radiation meter, 1st and 2nd shows you measure at site, 3rd photo (Lynas) measure near by the two bags. Would quantity bag of rare earth affect the accuracy meter? What is the packing material, does it block the radiation? why not you take the photo at same condition? for compare apple to apple
Nick Tsurikov: Dear Boonlee Ooi,
You wrote: "...the photo in ur radiation meter, 1st and 2nd shows you measure at site, 3rd photo (Lynas) measure near by the two bags."
Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing this out.
l will be around the area where the Lynas mine site is some time next week (that is if I'll make it tomorrow back to Nairobi in a two seater plane from the local Aero Club :-) In my understaning (not too sure though) the concentrate is being packed into the bags as it is being produced, but I do hope that I'll be able to take a photo of the material NOT packed into the bags and from a closer distance.
Then I'll update the photo on the right and re-upload it.
cheers, nick
>>>>>>Below is the photo replaced by Nick, he admitted the previous photo is wrong reading value where the material is covered and from some distance. The gamma radiation reading is increased.
------------>To be continue in Part 2
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)